Saturday, January 3, 2015

A Response to Atheist Analysis’ Christopher Tanner - Part II



“The parents locked Leelah away!. They took every form of communication away from her except CHURCH! They took her even out of school (which was confirmed by WPCO News). They gave her back her stuff after months of isolation then they restricted where she could go. She said over the last year she had seen her friends 3 times! You tell me how the hell that is right?”

Are you saying non-religious parents wouldn’t do this? I don’t believe I’ve seen any Biblical or church directive that has ever prescribed this. Maybe their brand of Christianity or their pastor advised this; I really don’t know (and neither do you). I think a commentary on the choices these parents made can be assessed on their own. Any causal relationship their behavior has with their religion from what we can draw from what we know of the case would only be speculative. My opinion is that imposed isolation is not helpful for anyone that has symptoms of depression.

“And we are not talking about Leelah being a bad person and getting caught stealing or harming others, BUT BECAUSE SHE IS TRANSGENDER!”

So it would be justified punishment for those things?

“Come on Laurence how the can you sit there and type this with a serious face? It is not because Leelah killed herself just because she was depressed. She was isolated, taken to counselors that do not care to deal with transgender issues (probably because they they do not believe in it) and give a high dose of anti depressants which in teens has been known to cause suicide.”

Christopher, individuals commit suicide for all sorts of reasons. Everyone has varied thresholds of what their personalities can bare to take. It would only be opinion to suggest that it is because of the imposed isolation and inadequate counseling that led to the suicide. I was not aware the child was prescribed antidepressants. By whom was this prescribed? Primary physician or psychiatrist? As in any case even in adults psych meds can precede suicide, but you can’t really say they cause suicide.

“So if an atheist or apitheist house hold respected a child for any reason to that extreme of a basis, sent them to counselors that only practiced pseudo-science, and then allowed their child to take high dose of medication that has been shown to increase the risk for suicide then I would be just as angry. And if this same house hold did this because of something they did not understand that did not harm the family, I would be fucking irate.”

I didn’t ask if you would be mad. I asked what would you blame? If parents make bad choices then let’s talk about the choices. It is illogical to just blame their choices on their religion as the irreligious can and do make the same choices. You added “counselors that only practiced pseudo-science”. I was talking about atheists going to atheist therapists. Suicides happen for various reasons, Christopher. If a client commits suicide, you can’t just blame the methods of the professional. If the professional violates the code of thics for their license then that’s a different story.

“So I am not being unjust in my analysis of their parenting. I am taking the known information and making a judgment based on it which is what all normal people do. I even gave them the benefit of the doubt and said that their religion had poisoned their thinking. You eluded to that they were bad parents and their religion had nothing to do with it.”

If the religion influenced their choices then we would have to get that from their admission. Otherwise we are speculating on it. Maybe they learned it from their family culture? Who knows?

“Now I have reasons to believe and there has been books written by others that suggest we would be better off without religion. You do not get to make the claim that I am using mystic power to see what would happen without religion and then turn around and say if we diid not have religion that we would be narcissistic personalities rising up. You are guilty accusing me of what you did your self in the next sentence.”

Good point. So, let me retract my precognitions. That still leaves you with my objection. We can only imagine a world without religion. However, we do have atheistic societies that have nevertheless replaced religion for nationalism or some other personality cult. They have new documentaries on happiness ideologies by self-help gurus.

“Now the problem is that this blog nor my second one was not the time or the place to discuss life without religion. I can write a future blog if you want but these blogs were not about the total overview that life would be better without religion.”

OK. I look forward to it.

“Last I bestow anger and vitriol when ignorance is displayed. Her parents with either bad parents or ignorant because of their religion.”

Not sure who you will win over if vitriol is your approach. The parents may or may not have been ignorant because of their religion. I can’t say as I don’t know what their religion taught.

“But my latest batch of vitriol comes because while I will continue to have the conversation about religion and will keep my vitriol in check for that, THE LIVES of Transgender individuals and the ignorance displayed in society for the UNEQUAL treatment of those individuals I will not keep my tongue. I will speak out, and pointedly because those that do not care nor understand the issue at some point are not worth discussing and I will fight to change the laws so people can not suppress Transgender Individuals.”


More power to you. I can appreciate when people are passionate about causes they believe in. I was just curious if you feel your style wins people over to your cause. Otherwise you are preaching to your choir. 

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